Curse

Str0b0 · May 10, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Ok thank you for the psychology 101 lesson. Seratonin levels aside there is no quantitive measurement for fun. A masochist getting beaten will have higher seratonin levels,but if I beat you though I bet we see an increase in adrenaline and activity in the medula oblongata. Again subjective. As for my defined subjective....that's not my definition that's a paraphrased dictionary definition. The definition of subjective has never been a point of question here. Subjective is what it is and all the psychobabble in the world won't change that fact. Learned behaviors are the basis of subjective views and no one learns the same behaviors in the same way. So your point there would have been? Or are you just wanting to lecture me about pop psychology? I assure you I sat through my psych 101 already thanks.

You haven't changed the fact that fun and the definition of what is fun is subjective. It varies from person to person. Some people like being rich in game. Others like killing other toons. I'm one of the former and I despise the latter. There are people on here that couldn't stand to watch the economic trends and buy low and sell high. It's just aggravating to them ,yet they love to kill other people in the arenas. What really chaps my proverbial buttocks is when people insinuate that somehow anyone with loot is missing the point of the game or not having fun as if those two things could be put down in concrete terms.

kryshnysh · May 10, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Seratonin rise in individuals brought in area proximity to their significant other have been measured. So, the future is actually past at this point.

The future Str0b0 mentioned isn't past at all. I can't think of anybody in the field who would claim to measure the amount of fun. Not to mention you cited the study's results incorrectly. Please, careful with the "science" you quote as there may be those in the specific field around who can point out that your statement isn't quite correct. (Its Serotonin or 5-HT, no 'a' in the name. To a mod: if we get more bad science, am I permitted to blast it full-length? Please.)

As far as ebayers and people I've met... I can (I think) tell the difference between the rich people I know who seem to ebay ("Some guy was quitting the game and gave me 1 million") and those who have farmed/traded there way to that point. Most of the "1 million" (or 1.4 million; always such a nice round number...) via ebay people are much less knowledgeable than their equipment should imply. I've seen a couple of them. They often end up realizing that 1 million isn't needed for "top" equipment, and start giving it out to friends and guildies, and you get a proliferation of a half-dozen people having too much money and not enough knowledge...

ElinoraNeSangre · May 10, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Now that greater population doesn't necessarily mean everyone however it does indicate a significant percentage does use EBay which isn't the case hence the defensive arguments.

Cool, thanks; so it's not that anyone said *everyone* but they quantified a lot of people, and I can see the point of taking some offense.

I don't think internet buying of gold is the majority by any means. Most anyone who plays the game a lot knows that this sort of thing, on a massive scale, can damage the game economy pretty bad. Frankly, buying gold online just makes it harder because stuff like that gets good drop areas nerfed. The good of the game as a whole is much more important than one player wanting a lot of gold.

I wish there was an easy way to nuke the industry as a whole, but it's hard to get rid of the commercial farmers without taking out a lot of innocents who just like to get stuff. :P

AhuraMazda · May 10, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

I've had almost every single one of the green items at one point in time and they all dropped for me. I played about 1200 hours to get them. So I'd really appreciate it if people would stop complaining about how they can't get anything and go do some work for them. We took statistics on the drops and I didn't just get lucky either, it was an about average rate of drops. I'm not saying you have to play a lot to be good at Guild Wars, just that there are a lot of people who spend/spent upwards of 8 hours a day farming for an extended period of time (in my case, months), and therefore have a lot of money/valuable weapons.

You spent months farming greens and think you are good at Guild Wars?

A.net where is your game going? lol.

Maiyn · May 10, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I've made a million gold about 3 times over. Pretty broke again now.. damn armor and such. (To be fair though, I farmed runes before there were rune traders, IDS when they were like 60-80k, and greens when they were worth it ^^;; so some of it is timing)

I dunno, it takes a fair amount of time and some luck, but when you solo you make pretty decent loot.

There must be a million threads on farming builds, it takes a bit of practice but it's not too terribly difficult. I am not too up to speed on current farming spots, I've been pvping pretty much exclusively since December.. at least until factions came out ^^

fiery · May 10, 2006, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Spent all my cash, down to 916 gold total.

Lord Runner I · May 10, 2006, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

That is more sad than anything... perhaps someone needs to introduce you to this thing called fun... theres a whole game outside of Lions Arch and GWguru Forums/Auctions, i suggest you try it, you might like it.

What the hell do you even NEED 2mil a week for anyway?

The moment you start thinking of this game in terms of 'how much money i made last week' or 'how much profit i got last week', i would suggest getting yourself a new hobby. To find people dumb enough to allow you to get 2mil a week must take some time, time i think you should be spending elsewhere.

Sorry to let you down on ragging on ppl, but I dont usually see this guy on a lot, but when he is... he maybe goes to LAd1 sell 1 thing and he is probably 1mill richer.. but that only takes about 5 minutes.. after that.. he goes and help ALL of his guildies.. I would certainly know since he is in my guild.. He probably sells things because hes is bored of beating the game with 8+ characters... now he can beat factions like everyone else.. There ya go.. from the one and only, Lord Runner

twistedbehind · May 10, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

mofo still 3 hours to get my acc from banning

Fitz Rinley · May 10, 2006, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

The future Str0b0 mentioned isn't past at all. I can't think of anybody in the field who would claim to measure the amount of fun.

This is a fallacy substituting the argument that because a Scientist is not safe publically detailing our personalities are programmed bio-chemical responses natural to an organic computer; that love/affection/fun is merely a chemical facade across biological drives promoting the welfare of the species. The programing may be duped/deceived by 'entertainment' designed to facilitate those responses creates 'games' which reinforce the behavioral interest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

Its Serotonin or 5-HT, no 'a' in the name.

Typing for many of us is arbitrary. Most of my posts are edited because I catch about 1/3 of my typing errors. In addition, anyone that has taken or deals in linguages/linguistics eventually sees generality of spelling and specifics of sound. As an audiophile learner I am quite aware that much of my spelling is phonetic instead of preferred usage. My bad typing and not being a visual primary make your attack useless. As well, my not spelling it correctly has nothing to do with conceptualization presented. X is not false because 'X' is false. A real scientist would not make that mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Learned behaviors are the basis of subjective views and no one learns the same behaviors in the same way. So your point there would have been?

Exegetical. Your posit was incomplete and assumed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

You haven't changed the fact that fun and the definition of what is fun is subjective.

Very astute. I infact specifically did not separate subjectivity from behavioral programming. I did not deny or in anyway undermine your argument that like real poverty, virtual poverty, leads to the same behavioral responses. The difference between real poverty and virtual poverty is that people do not play games to have unsuccessful fantasies. Indeed, it is necessary for many to play life without obtaining their goals because of the limited resources in spaceship earth, limited distribution, limited opportunity for promoted status, and loss of ambition with contentment for the unawakened.

What I did was posit a source for the subjectivity and disagree that 'fun' can not be measured. It is measured regularly in miligrams of medication which alter biochemical response. That is not psychology 101, it is psychiatirc practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maiyn

I dunno, it takes a fair amount of time and some luck, but when you solo you make pretty decent loot.
There must be a million threads on farming builds, it takes a bit of practice but it's not too terribly difficult.

Difficulty is immaterial. Farming is assembly line labor. I have never cared for it. A friend of mine has about as many hours in playing as I do, but she has determined that all her charcters belong to the Order of Our LAdy of Perpetual Pverty. We play, we do not farm. While farming is intended and promoted by the GW staff and system (in example collect 250 Naga Fangs for a mask) this is not the selling point of the game. There are no games advertising, ''New game, guaranteed Farming experience. Repetitively enter the same area to repetitively kill the same things just for points, but you can call it cash if you want.'' We had games like that Space Invaders, Centipede, Pac-man, and the masses are looking for something a little better now.

Fitz

Fitz

Vahn Roi · May 10, 2006, 01:11 PM // 13:11

The joys of inflation.

It's fortunate that I rarely buy from other players...

Akhilleus · May 11, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

That is more sad than anything... perhaps someone needs to introduce you to this thing called fun... theres a whole game outside of Lions Arch and GWguru Forums/Auctions, i suggest you try it, you might like it.

What the hell do you even NEED 2mil a week for anyway?

The moment you start thinking of this game in terms of 'how much money i made last week' or 'how much profit i got last week', i would suggest getting yourself a new hobby. To find people dumb enough to allow you to get 2mil a week must take some time, time i think you should be spending elsewhere.

how well do you know me?
not at all; obviously.
A: i find trading to be fun, i dont mind doing it, in fact, people who dont like trading quickly grow bored of it, and try and sell their stuff asap regardless of taking a small to mediocre loss...just because they dont like spending time in trade channels. i have no problem talking with people in-game and reading trade spams.
B: if your definition of "fun" happens to be playing the game, doing quests, doing pvp, and developing characters; bewteen my accounts ive unlocked well over 350,000 balthazar, i have 11 level 20 characters, 7 of which have beaten ch1, 1 (soon to be 3) of which ahve beaten chapter 2; i take college classes, and i have a full-time job (soon to be 2 jobs for the summer since i wont be taking classes). though, i am currently single.
most of my guildwars time is later at night when i get home from work, or mid-day, before i take on a nightshift.
if i didnt enjoy the game and what i do in it; i'd quit, period.
so please, stop pretending to know me, get off your moral high-horse, and stop trying to tell me im not having fun.

kryshnysh · May 11, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Seratonin rise in individuals brought in area proximity to their significant other have been measured. So, the future is actually past at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

A real scientist would not make that mistake.

I'm not going to bother arguing with the majority of the post as it would be too far off-topic (topic being multi-millionaires and e-bay, not whether farming is interesting, or whether fun can be measured in a chemical manner).

I am however stating that I consider the second quote an attack, whereas my corrective spelling was not an attack. I don't see how that difference in spelling matters at all to your credibility, nor did I imply as much, instead separating everything as best I could without going overboard. The second statement is in fact directly stating I am not a "real scientist" which is quite definitely an attack given that I implied that this is in fact my life's study (and yes, I would consider a decade of my young life in neurochemical measurement to be my life's study).

I only added in the correction in spelling after reading Str0b0's response, after which I didn't want anyone else using the incorrect spelling of Serotonin. Best of placement? Probably not, but as you have already implied, being an expert wordsmith is not something most of us are gifted with.

Also please note that the first quote is an incorrect summary of the experiment(s) that have been performed, it doesn't even imply that fun was measured (although there are psychological "fun" measurements, they are not at all related to chemicals). If you want the correct measurements that have been done, I will be glad to include them in PM (its not a short explanation as there are many of them).

So at this point, Akh (who I run into in game a decent bit), could be having plenty of fun in ways that don't call into question his motives nearly as well as many would like to claim. I don't know Akh well at all, I just run into him a good bit, and he seems to have quite a bit of fun. He's happy he's made money and in large sums (not slow trading either from what little I have seen), and he espouses all sorts of values beyond just guild wars. Some like to farm for money all day long, others prefer to find interesting ways to make lots of money in minimal amounts of time. 2 million does seem sick, but thats only a good 200 ectos when the price was high, and 300 ectos at the pre-factions prices. Less than 50 ectos per day... saw people making that on mini-pets this week with 30-60 minute turnovers... to do so during regular times means you probably have to do a bit better, but not incredibly much more so.

Jack Black Mack · May 11, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Note: PvPers finally seem to have a chance to become rich...12v12 and Alliance Faction. Good PvPers could become rich off HoH runs occasionally dropping VERY nice items, but not everyone can reach that. Now even the common PvPer can become rich...

Krill · May 11, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

I had very good luck with factions first week, had a sup absorb and gold max oni daggers 15%^50 drop for me @ the bugged arborstone quest that sold for 100k +10 ecto. The guy didn't even haggle, just said i'll buy and gave me the money...kinda made me feel like I was either getting ripped off or he had more money than I care to think about.

Makkert · May 11, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

One can make a decent amount of money (not milionaire) with farming that what is currently hot in the market.

foo · May 11, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crimson Ashwood

Anyone know what a Gothic Sword with +5 energy would be worth?

I auctioned one of those a few days ago [req12 I think] and got 200k for it. [it droped out of a kurzick chest].

and in general, I think most of my money came from trading candy canes, candy cane shards, greens, and some ecto and shards duo and solo farming. the point, in a way, is that you need to have money to make money, and need to know how.

Ggraphix · May 31, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

I reached over 100k 3 times in 3 days farming and selling.
some of it was buying cheap and selling higher

But if you get your hands on a perfect weapon of a rare skin, you're rich.
or one of the elite mission greens that yeild minimum 400k each

exiled mat · May 31, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

I've never got more than 50K

But i can do with the better collectors items, they may look cheap but a cheap thing can hurt

Cymboric Treewalker · May 31, 2006, 02:25 PM // 14:25

I had 938K when factions launched -- all honest farming. I am now down to 243K and rebuilding after buying lots of stuff (armors/weapons). I am able to farm a few greens solo with my mesmer so it should be a week or two and I will be in the 500K area easily.

The Herbalizer · May 31, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryshnysh

As far as ebayers and people I've met... I can (I think) tell the difference between the rich people I know who seem to ebay ("Some guy was quitting the game and gave me 1 million") and those who have farmed/traded there way to that point. Most of the "1 million" (or 1.4 million; always such a nice round number...) via ebay people are much less knowledgeable than their equipment should imply. I've seen a couple of them. They often end up realizing that 1 million isn't needed for "top" equipment, and start giving it out to friends and guildies, and you get a proliferation of a half-dozen people having too much money and not enough knowledge...

yay for ignorant statements. i dont know much about pve i know even less about pvp. i only know a little bit about warriors and necros but i could not construct an uber build. i have made many many millions. do i ebay? no. i am very good at finding excellent deals and this is an area i excel at. please dont say people who arent pwnage in every area of game play ebay as that is kinda insulting. not many people can claim to make 250k a day when trying. heck i have made 250k today and it was from just one nice trade.

yeah sure a million is needed for uber godly stuff. unconditional weapons, 55hp axes (devari ones), -20hp axe, 15% ffs. they give you an advantage over normal standard items. in the hands of an experienced players they would be very useful.